*shrug* It's just my evaluation. There is lots of stuff out there that I dig that many other cannot fathom. Rainier Beer in a can, for example.
From: Robert Hawkes <haw-@frontiernet.net> Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com To: Loopfram-@topica.com Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 18:31:13 -0500
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Zer, Can't remember if I responded to your last installment yesterday but.... Your criticism of Persig seems right, he doesn't know much about bikes. He may know something about traveling in America which seemed to be such an in thing to do back in the 60s/70s. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Zerhackermann . <chopp-@hotmail.com> To: <Loopfram-@topica.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 9:57 PM Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
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ummm... yep.
too self absorbed. sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I give the HD
crowd a
lot of grief, but I still appreciate the bikes and recognize what is
good as
well as bad about them. to simply dismiss them and the owners because
the
bike doesn't break enough is pretty friggin shallow for a supposedly
deep
thinker.
Maintaining a BMW airhead of the loopframes vintage (this spans two very different general types of BMW the /2 and /5) is really no different
than
the loop with regards to the tasks involved. true, BMWs are much more subtle. both the guzzis and the BMWs sing songs. The BMWs is just a bit quieter.
where they differ is the BMW tends to have a more "serious" character. "purposeful" "efficient" etc etc are the tags that get dropped on them.
The
Guzz has the element of chaos breathed into the bike. There is always something going on. Something unexpected. I think that is why few people truly enjoy both bikes. because the folks that appreciate the efficiency of the BMW are driven to distraction by
the
roller coaster the Guzz puts you on. And the folks who adore the oddness
of
the Guzzi are bored to death by the BMWs seriousness. On my BMW I go
hunting
corners and eat up miles. On my Guzzi, I just wander.
Persig does not understand these nuances. he's too busy jerking off his frontal lobe. He might know zen. but he don't know bikes.
From: Robert Hawkes <haw-@frontiernet.net> Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com To: Loopfram-@topica.com Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:19:13 -0500
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Zer, I'm curious, what exactly do you mean by this? Do you think
Persig is
full of shit? Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: Zerhackermann . <chopp-@hotmail.com> To: <Loopfram-@topica.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:51 PM Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
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It's because of junk like this in his book, giving folks incorrect misconceptions, that I consider that book to just be a poor
substitue
for
toilet paper.
"His riding partners are on BMW's. They enjoy riding but consider
repair
and maintenance as things that are done to your bike by others and
inherently
take away from the experience if you have to do them yourself. Their
bikes
either run or they don't. They do not with to analyze even the simplest
problems
since they look at the bike as a single entity. When it's broke, it's
broke
and
someone with that knowledge must fix it. I read this book before
ever
getting a motorcycle and early on, identified that I would never be satisfied
with
a
bike that I did not have the ability to work on myself. "
From: psabr-@aol.com Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com To: Loopfram-@topica.com Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:04:25 EST
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OK,
Since we have introduced discussions on books and Guzzi vs
BMW/Goldwing,
I'll bring up the annual "Zen" reference. If you've never read it,
sit
down with "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". A book of Philosophy intertwined with a study of motorcycles and their
riders.
The
reading can be dry at times, so be forewarned. The author (Pirsig)
rides
an old motorcycle and performs routine and roadside maintenance
because
it
is an anticipated and expected part of the entire riding
experience.
He
understands that his bike is a collection of interoperating systems
that
all tie together to make the bike run. If one system fails then
the
entire
"system" fails. Troubleshooting and analysis of problems adds to
his
pleasure.
His riding partners are on BMW's. They enjoy riding but consider
repair
and maintenance as things that are done to your bike by others and inherently take away from the experience if you have to do them
yourself.
Their bikes either run or they don't. They do not with to analyze
even
the
simplest problems since they look at the bike as a single entity.
When
it's broke, it's broke and someone with that knowledge must fix it.
I
read
this book before ever getting a motorcycle and early on, identified
that I
would never be satisfied with a bike that I did not have the
ability to
work on myself. It is that reputation of low maintenance and
longevity
that gives me little desire to own a BMW, Although I respect their
bikes
greatly. My experience with HD is that one must perform the same
basic
tasks (i.e. replace primary cover bolts) nearly everytime the bike
is
ridden. That, to me, is silly stuff. I want a machine that when
properly
"repaired", will hold that state reliably until another "repair" is
needed.
Moto Guzzi fits nicely somewhere between the two. Generally when
a
repair must me made repeatedly to a Guzzi, then perhaps there are
other
factors which must be contributing to the problem. We can see
this, in
that many of us have started with neglected bikes, but with time
and
persistence, the bikes end up being very reliable and consistent.
The
owners grow in knowledge and through familiarity and experience,
begin
to
anti
cipate when items must be worked on and why.
This may be a little deep and long-winded, but in my mind, it is
this
common experience and and ATTITUDE which binds the members of this
list
together.
To paraphrase the author one one of my favorite statements: "When working on a motorcycle, the first and foremost tool one must
have is
Gumption. Without that, no other tools will do you any good."
Thanks for the bandwidth David Whitmore '71 Ambassador (still gathering up the Gumption)
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