Subject: RE: The Same Yet So Different
Author: Jesse Open
Date: Jul 1, 2002, 7:57 AM
Post ID: 1710523323
The "torque" feelintg you refer to is due to the higher numerical
gearing of the Ambassador. The overall gear ratio for the Ambo is
13.42:1 compared to the Eldorado's 11.42:1 . This is a huge difference
and the increased engine torque of the 850 makes it possible to run the
lower nomerical ratios on the 850 .It is also the reason the shifting is
easier in both directions. (The closer ratio spread of the Eldo's 5
speed)
I like the general tractability of the 850 to the point that if I were
to get another Ambassador I would upgrade the engine to an 850.
Your friend's 4LS brakes on his 50K miles bike are sure to need some
attention. I have both and a properly setup 4LS front is a strong brake
indeed.Far more effective than the 2LS from the Ambo and early Eldos. I
am converting my 1971 Eldo Police model to 4LS. I like them every bit as
well as disc brakes.
One caution on ALL cable operated brakes is the replacement cables that
some folks are suplying are VERY poor quality. They use much smaller
wire diameter and a faster twist in the stranding. The cables stretch
FAR too much in operation and lead you to believe the brakes are weak .
A simple switch to OEM type cables restores function .
As far as handling, that is pretty much tuned from bike to bike. A
simple handle bar change can make a huge difference in the feel and
reponse of a bike.
Keith Ruff wrote:
| Good Morning to All. Went for a nice evening cruise with Cam yesterday. We headed out about 8:15pm, went east on Rt 72 to Long Beach Island, NJ, then headed north to the tip of the island and stopped at the lighthouse to absorb some scenary and fresh ocean air.... nice. We turned around and headed south, stopping for gas on the way. After fueling up, we decided to switch bikes to see how they differed. We had just talked about being out here in what seems to be the boonies in NJ since we have no dealers near by nor any good knowledgeable mechanics for these loopframes. We wondered how our bikes were running in comparison to other loops that are running like they should, so we figured switching bikes would give us an idea. It was quite an enlightening experience. Cruising back down the strip, we immediately noticed a few differences, one being the brakes on my Ambo are excellent with good feel at the handle. At the first stop light we hit, Cam said, "Your brakes are awesome", I said, "and your brakes s--k!". For some reason, perhaps binding brake cables, his Eldo with 4 leading shoes, is very hard at the handle. It takes a ton of effort to start pulling the cable 1/2 way to the bars, then, all of a sudden, they grab quick and the nose dives. Something is not right there. Other immediately noticable difference is his repro springer seat is springy (is that a word?) and bottoms out over big bumps. My original Caribinieri has much thicker springs which makes for a stiffer ride, to me and Cam, it almost feels like it is not sprung but direct mounted to the frame. The springs do compress but you can't really feel them working. I prefer the stiffer ride as it gives me more road feel and a solid mount, whereas Cam likes the springy feel, though we both agreed somewhere in between is the right choice. As far as suspension, Cam's Eldo was much better. My Ambo's forks seem spungy and bounce more in comparison to his Eldo, perhaps it is disguised by the springs in his seat, or maybe I should check the setting on my rear shocks or replace them? Ideas anyone? I am running 30 wt fork oil in them which is much better than the ATF previously. The Eldo also seemed to be more flickable than my Ambo, could have been the suspension or perhaps how his bars were set up. Cam's handlebars are pitched lower than mine, too low for me as I would hit my knees while doing slow turns. We are both now used to how our bars are set up, so this is a non-issue. Funny thing was our blinkers operated opposite, which I noticed immediately as I was behind Cam and when he went right, he put on my left blinker, when left, right blinker was on. He noticed this when we turned onto our block. Now for the engine differences: We both noted and agreed that my Ambo has a bunch more low end torque, funny because I thought the 850 motor produced more torque, I think perhaps it is just harnessed at a different RPM. Cam's Eldo is so much smoother in the throttle department, and power is right there at the twist of the wrist where I must let the Ambo wind up a bit at low RPM's or just downshift. Speaking of downshifting, this is quite a task on the Ambo which goes back to the torque thing, downshifting on my Ambo can be dangerouse depending on speed as it produces heavy engine braking. Cam's Eldo was smooth to downshift with nowhere near the engine braking of my Ambo, was very pleasant. The exhaust note on my Ambo seemed to growl a bit more than Cam's, though they appear to be the same pipes (Valtek) and we both have K&N's installed (I believe the Guzzi shop rejetted my carbs though). We both noticed that my Ambo motor is noisier than the Eldo, but we don't know what exactly the noise was, perhaps the Ambo's valve clatter a bit more or need an adjustment, though that was done only a few hundred miles ago but the Guzzi shop, perhaps that too was done incorrectly! Don't know what else would cause more of an engine clatter, power is excellent, so I don't think it can be anything serious, I hope.... It was also good to hear the "chirp" noise on Cam's bike also. I noticed a little chirp noise up front when getting on the throttle that was also present in Cam's bike, I believe this is probably the generator/belt. I was glad to hear this common chirp as it reassured me that this may be common on loops. Transmission seemed to shift the same, though it was a bit harder to get the Eldo in nuetral. 3rd gear on the Eldo had tremendous pull where I believe 2nd gear was the sweet gear on my Ambo. It was nice having that 5th gear too for highway cruising, but I do like the pull of the 4 gears on the Ambo and winding her up..... Overall, for bikes that look so much alike, they run so much different, each with their own personality. To me, Cam's Eldo felt tighter overall (engine & suspension), ran quieter, and idled a bit better, even though his odometer reads 51K miles and my Ambo only 5400 miles. Perhaps the 850 motor is smoother. To Cam, he felt like the Ambo felt tighter than his Eldo and idled better, so I guess it's matter of opinion. Both are sweet machines, and ya know, we didn't see any others like them during our evening ride, nor during any other ride we have been on, cool....... Keith Ruff 71 Police Ambassador - NJ |
Is that the single malt talking or just another cheap WHINE ?