Subject: Re: Pirsig

I seem to recall getting about midway through the book
and finding some incorrect misinformation relating to
certain particular mechanical repairs or perhaps
icorrect descriptions of mechanical processes that
really disappointed me. Here I was, thinking that this
guy Persig had the ability to actually work on his
bike and then he comes up with some crap that makes no
good sense to anyone with any actual knowlege of
mechanics. Then, I thought,What a phony! Anybody
relate? I did finish the book, though I'm not tempted
to read it again.
--- Tim Crump <crum-@msn.com> wrote:

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Sorry Chris.....tried to read it several times, but
found it to be philosophically lame.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Berry
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 11:22 AM
To: Loopfram-@topica.com
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME

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I agree...this is a wonderful book. If you are not
into philosophy and such
stuff, it is definitely not for you. However, if
you enjoy a thought
provoking, intellectual read (albeit a hard and
sometimes dry one) this is
the book for you. It took me about four times
through to "get it" with this
book. Now it is time to replace my copy, cos I've
read it so much. Maybe a
hardcover this time. I saw a new one at the
bookstore the other week that
has some new comments by Pirsig, so I'll probably
get that edition after the
holidays.
Btw, I think the Winnie the Pooh phrase "if you
don't have anything nice to
say, don't say anything at all" fits nicely here.
Enjoy!
Chris in NC

From: psabr-@aol.com
Reply-To: Loopfram-@topica.com
To: Loopfram-@topica.com
Subject: Re: LONG DISTANCE LOOP FRAME
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:04:25 EST

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OK,

Since we have introduced discussions on books and

Guzzi vs BMW/Goldwing,

I'll bring up the annual "Zen" reference. If

you've never read it, sit

down with "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle

Maintenance". A book of

Philosophy intertwined with a study of motorcycles

and their riders. The

reading can be dry at times, so be forewarned. The

author (Pirsig) rides

an old motorcycle and performs routine and roadside

maintenance because it

is an anticipated and expected part of the entire

riding experience. He

understands that his bike is a collection of

interoperating systems that

all tie together to make the bike run. If one

system fails then the entire

"system" fails. Troubleshooting and analysis of

problems adds to his

pleasure.

His riding partners are on BMW's. They enjoy

riding but consider repair

and maintenance as things that are done to your

bike by others and

inherently take away from the experience if you

have to do them yourself.

Their bikes either run or they don't. They do not

with to analyze even the

simplest problems since they look at the bike as a

single entity. When

it's broke, it's broke and someone with that

knowledge must fix it. I read

this book before ever getting a motorcycle and

early on, identified that I

would never be satisfied with a bike that I did not

have the ability to

work on myself. It is that reputation of low

maintenance and longevity

that gives me little desire to own a BMW, Although

I respect their bikes

greatly. My experience with HD is that one must

perform the same basic

tasks (i.e. replace primary cover bolts) nearly

everytime the bike is

ridden. That, to me, is silly stuff. I want a

machine that when properly

"repaired", will hold that state reliably until

another "repair" is needed.

Moto Guzzi fits nicely somewhere between the two.

Generally when a

repair must me made repeatedly to a Guzzi, then

perhaps there are other

factors which must be contributing to the problem.

We can see this, in

that many of us have started with neglected bikes,

but with time and

persistence, the bikes end up being very reliable

and consistent. The

owners grow in knowledge and through familiarity

and experience, begin to

anti

cipate when items must be worked on and why.

This may be a little deep and long-winded, but in

my mind, it is this

common experience and and ATTITUDE which binds the

members of this list

together.

To paraphrase the author one one of my favorite

statements:

"When working on a motorcycle, the first and

foremost tool one must have is

Gumption. Without that, no other tools will do you

any good."

Thanks for the bandwidth
David Whitmore
'71 Ambassador (still gathering up the Gumption)

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Subject: Re: Pirsig

Author: David Whalen

Date: Dec 13, 2001, 2:10 PM

Post ID: 1709150020

Entire thread: