Subject: Re: Harper electronic ignition

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Hi, Ron -

I'm glad that you finally got your bike running with the new ignition.
However, being the engineering type that I am, your description of the
problem and what you did to solve it brings up a few questions:

1st, since the adjustment slot on the loopframe distributors allows at least
45 degrees of movement, and moving the distributor shaft 1 tooth either way
moves the timing by 30 distributor degrees (that's 60degrees at the
crankshaft), unless you have an obstruction in the slot that limits the
distributor housing's travel, you should have been able to get your timing
adjustment substantially away from one end of the slot or the other, and you
should certainly have been able to time both cylinders without having to
turn the distributor around, which as you now know, can't possibly work
anyway, assuming that your distributor wasn't installed 180 out in the first
place.

2nd - how in the heck could Harper's have "fixed" a similar problem, which
shouldn't have arisen in the first place, by rotating the distributor 180
degrees? Since the Guzzi is a 90degree Vee-twin, the cylinder firing
intervals are 450 degrees between 1 & 2, then 270 degrees between 2 and 1,
with #1 being the right cylinder and # 2 being the left. Obviously,
rotating the distributor shaft 180 degrees independent of the crankshaft
will result in one cylinder being 180 degrees out of time (450-270=180).

3rd - Assuming you put the same new ignition system in a second distributor
and got it working there, why wouldn't it work in the first one?

Inquiring minds want to know.

HarryBinNC

-------Original Message-------

From: Loopfram-@topica.com
Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:22:43 AM
To: looperlist
Subject: Harper electronic ignition

Well, the Eldo project is running.......not without hassles. The first time
I tried to set the timing on the thing, I had a problem. I could alllmost
(but not quite) get it in time at one end of the distributor travel, so, I
loosened the mounting bolts, pulled up the distributor & rotated it one
tooth on the distributor drive gear. THEN I could alllmost (but not quite)
get the marks to line up at the other end of the adjustment travel. I called
Mike Harper. He said that they "had a similar problem on one of their test
installations", and that the thing to do was pull up the distributor, rotate
it 180 degrees, then swap the plug wires on the distributor cap. OK, I did
as instructed, & the left cylinder timed up perfectly-right in the center of
the adjustment travel. GREAT! except that the bike was running on the left
cylinder only, pop,pop,pop,pop, w/the right contributing a window rattling
KAPOW backfire every few seconds. THIS isn't right. When the timing is
right, switching the timing light to the right cylinder will show the timing
marks at the top of the pulley, in my case they were at the bottom, so the
left was dead on & the right 180 degrees out. The location of the magnets is
fixed because they are cast in a plastic part that can only go one way on
the points cam, the pick up is solidly riveted to a mounting plate that
replaces the points, fitting over the old points pivot post & being held in
by the same little screw that held the points. Unlike the Dyna, there is NO
adjustability in the componets.
Fortunately, I had a second distributor in my parts stash. After cleaning,
lubing & installing the new counter weight springs, I put it in & was
finally able to time the bike properly. It IS all the way at one end of the
adjustment travel, but the marks line up at idle & full advance.
So, how does it run? Pretty good! it's obvious that the Petronix coil
supplied w/the Harpers kit is MUCH more powerful than the stocker. The bike
fires up on the first turn of the starter-every time. I haven't ridden it bu
t a few miles so far, but it feels strong & smooth.
Further reports to follow,
Ron Komoroski
PS, for those who missed it the first time. The Harpers loop electronic
ignition kit consists of: A Pertronix "ignitor" (magnet containing rotor &
pickup assembly) #MR-121. A Pertronix "flame thrower" 40K volt coil, 3.0
ohm, #40611. And a new distributor cap & rotor, HT wires & spark plug caps,
all stock Guzzi parts.

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vAlign=top>
<DIV>Hi, Ron -</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I'm glad that you finally got your bike running with the new
ignition. However, being the engineering type that I am, your
description of the problem and what you did to solve it brings up a
few questions:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1st, since the adjustment slot on the loopframe distributors allows
at least 45 degrees of movement, and moving the distributor shaft 1 tooth
either way moves the timing by 30 distributor degrees (that's 60degrees at
the crankshaft), unless you have an obstruction in the slot that limits
the distributor housing's travel, you should have been able to get your
timing adjustment substantially away from one end of the slot or the
other, and you should certainly have been able to time both cylinders
without having to turn the distributor around, which as you now know,
can't possibly work anyway, assuming that your distributor wasn't
installed 180 out in the first place. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2nd - how in the heck could Harper's have "fixed" a similar problem,
which shouldn't have arisen in the first place, by rotating the
distributor 180 degrees? Since the Guzzi is a 90degree Vee-twin, the
cylinder firing intervals are 450 degrees between 1 & 2, then 270
degrees between 2 and 1, with #1 being the right cylinder and # 2 being
the left. Obviously, rotating the distributor shaft 180 degrees
independent of the crankshaft will result in one cylinder being 180
degrees out of time (450-270=180).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3rd - Assuming you put the same new ignition system in a second
distributor and got it working there, why wouldn't it work in the first
one?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Inquiring minds want to know. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>HarryBinNC</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=IncrediOriginalMessage><I>-------Original Message-------</I></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV id=receivestrings>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>From:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:Loopfram-@topica.com">Loopfram-@topica.com</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Date:</B></I> Wednesday, August
13, 2003 10:22:43 AM</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>To:</B></I> <A
href="mailto:Loopfram-@topica.com">looperlist</A></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" <i><B>Subject:</B></I> Harper
electronic ignition</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Well, the Eldo project is running.......not without hassles. The
first time</DIV>
<DIV>I tried to set the timing on the thing, I had a problem. I could
alllmost</DIV>
<DIV>(but not quite) get it in time at one end of the distributor travel,
so, I</DIV>
<DIV>loosened the mounting bolts, pulled up the distributor & rotated
it one</DIV>
<DIV>tooth on the distributor drive gear. THEN I could alllmost (but not
quite)</DIV>
<DIV>get the marks to line up at the other end of the adjustment travel. I
called</DIV>
<DIV>Mike Harper. He said that they "had a similar problem on one of their
test</DIV>
<DIV>installations", and that the thing to do was pull up the distributor,
rotate</DIV>
<DIV>it 180 degrees, then swap the plug wires on the distributor cap. OK,
I did</DIV>
<DIV>as instructed, & the left cylinder timed up perfectly-right in
the center of</DIV>
<DIV>the adjustment travel. GREAT! except that the bike was running on the
left</DIV>
<DIV>cylinder only, pop,pop,pop,pop, w/the right contributing a window
rattling</DIV>
<DIV>KAPOW backfire every few seconds. THIS isn't right. When the timing
is</DIV>
<DIV>right, switching the timing light to the right cylinder will show the
timing</DIV>
<DIV>marks at the top of the pulley, in my case they were at the bottom,
so the</DIV>
<DIV>left was dead on & the right 180 degrees out. The location of the
magnets is</DIV>
<DIV>fixed because they are cast in a plastic part that can only go one
way on</DIV>
<DIV>the points cam, the pick up is solidly riveted to a mounting plate
that</DIV>
<DIV>replaces the points, fitting over the old points pivot post &
being held in</DIV>
<DIV>by the same little screw that held the points. Unlike the Dyna, there
is NO</DIV>
<DIV>adjustability in the componets.</DIV>
<DIV>Fortunately, I had a second distributor in my parts stash. After
cleaning,</DIV>
<DIV>lubing & installing the new counter weight springs, I put it in
& was</DIV>
<DIV>finally able to time the bike properly. It IS all the way at one end
of the</DIV>
<DIV>adjustment travel, but the marks line up at idle & full
advance.</DIV>
<DIV>So, how does it run? Pretty good! it's obvious that the Petronix
coil</DIV>
<DIV>supplied w/the Harpers kit is MUCH more powerful than the stocker.
The bike</DIV>
<DIV>fires up on the first turn of the starter-every time. I haven't
ridden it bu</DIV>
<DIV>t a few miles so far, but it feels strong & smooth.</DIV>
<DIV>Further reports to follow,</DIV>
<DIV>Ron Komoroski</DIV>
<DIV>PS, for those who missed it the first time. The Harpers loop
electronic</DIV>
<DIV>ignition kit consists of: A Pertronix "ignitor" (magnet containing
rotor &</DIV>
<DIV>pickup assembly) #MR-121. A Pertronix "flame thrower" 40K volt coil,
3.0</DIV>
<DIV>ohm, #40611. And a new distributor cap & rotor, HT wires &
spark plug caps,</DIV>
<DIV>all stock Guzzi parts.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
-----</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>.</DIV></TD></TR>
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Subject: Re: Harper electronic ignition

Author: Harry Burris

Date: Aug 13, 2003, 12:41 PM

Post ID: 1714141249

Entire thread: